Thursday, February 26, 2009

Zerghammer?

Warhammer Online was created with the intent of having massive battles between Order and Destruction. They've accomplished that goal as far as I'm concerned given that I've seen 4-5 warbands (a warband consists of 24 people) fight 4-5 warbands several times, not counting fortress battles. There are much larger battles than that, ones exceeding 200v200 at times and I'm sure each server could tell you stories about large battles they've had. However all along there have been players who have spoken out against "zerging" and have promoted small group play (usually 10 or less people vs 10 or less etc). Now when I talk about zerging I use the term loosely. I consider a zerg to be a mass of players that run around together accomplishing things that can be done with many less. For example if there are 28 Destruction in a zone and Order responds and attacks them with 55 people then I consider that zerging. Is zerging bad? That depends.

WAR awards zerg behavior. Keeps, Battlefield Objectives, Fortresses and beyond all award zerg play. This is funny, because the ultimate goals of those particular things require PvE. WAR is supposedly a PvP game. I think it shines as a PvP game really, but only as long as I refrain from getting caught up in the renown farming PvE cycle. Given that WAR is based around zerg play, small groups will find they do in fact have a role to play. Say Destruction is attacking a keep. Take a 2-6 man force and find a good ambush spot between the Destro warcamp and the most likely approach to the keep. You'll find all sorts of small battles. Another thing you can do is to bait away portions of a zerg. Inevitably the zerg leader will do one of two things. They will either tell everyone to charge you (thus "zerging" you) or they will tell everyone to ignore you in which case at least 5-10% of the zerg will still likely come after you. Here's an example of how zerg minded people are in WAR. Several times I've been running in a small group and we'll come across a zerg waiting in a BO for it to cap (yay 500 Renown!!!). We'll try to bait them out to fight and usually a few will come out. We then usually kill those players (in plain sight of their allies) and run off before those sitting in the BO even consider moving. That doesn't always happen (sometimes they steam roll us), but it happens often enough to give me a sick feeling in my stomach.

So far I know that I sound opposed to zerging. That's because I am. However in a game that rewards that style of play I cannot find fault in those who like to run around in massive clumps. It's what the game is based around and they have every right to do so. That said, I have more respect for those who run in smaller groups to accomplish the same goals the zergs are working at. Do they care? It's likely they don't, but that's the point of having an opinion. Some will agree while others disagree. I can say for sure though that the most fun I have in WAR is when running with 4-6 people and wiping a group of say 8-20 people. For me there's a sense of accomplishment and good play when I'm on the outnumbered side and still win. If I am in a group that doubles the size of the group we're fighting then I almost feel useless. What enjoyment is there if you don't even really need to dismount? I guess it depends on why you play as well. I play to PvP and have fun. From what I've written you can tell what I consider fun when it comes to PvP in WAR.

What do you folks think? Is zerging good? Bad? Necessary? I've expressed my opinion, now express yours.

9 comments:

  1. I agree completely. I too hate zerging/following the zerg, but respect the right of those who choose to do it. I do, however begin to desrespect the players who lead zergs when they tell people outside their "jurisdiction" what to do. If I am out in a small group and a zerg leader tells x people to go to y battlefield objective and x people to go to z battlefield objective and another small group goes to a different one and gets flac for it, something is wrong. It may make sense to wait to capture a battlefield objective, but you cannot honestly get mad at people for taking something that is meant to be taken. I have seen more of this as of late, and it bothers me to no end.

    Hopefully the other people in the game who enjoy small group combat situations will stick around despite the zerg.

    I'm just happy we're on a server in which the Destruction zerg doesn't completely trump and trivialise my efforts.

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  2. Yeah I agree. I have no problems with zerg leaders wanting to keep in contact with small groups or asking for help, but they shouldn't expect it. Often the reason people run in small groups is to get away from the zerg, not because they don't have enough to zerg around on their own.

    Unfortunately on PT Order has a numbers advantage on Destro. Sometimes it's not noticeable while other times it is. I much preferred being the outnumbered side though.

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  3. Zerging as the act of bringing a gun to a knife fight is bad. It actually 'breaks' the game. However, there are cases where big armies vs. big armies or big armies vs. small armies can actually be in the spirit of the game: keep sieges, fortress sieges, etc. How the game is designed to handle numbers and balance for them makes all the difference.

    It's all about keeping things within the spirit of the game. WAR fails to do that 90% of the time with zergs.

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  4. Good point, Keen. At one point in my WAR career (before I joined up with Conjunction) I was really becomming disheartened and disenchanted with the game. I was in T3 and didn't really have any people I regularly played with.

    Then I logged on one night to a massive battle in Avelorn. I had such a great time pushing destro back to their keep and getting pushed back to the bridge near our Warcamp. After the order zerg eventually defeated the destro zerg, most people went to a different zone. I stayed behind a bit to look for stragglers and ended up teaming up with an Archmage and we went around as a duo and beat several teams of two and three together. This, for me, refreshed the game, and perfectly illustrated the joys of both large and small battles.

    Also, you, Sto, and... someone else's T3 videos shows how awesome and fun small fights can be!

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  5. Keen, I agree with you that zergs often ruin endgame PvP in Warhammer. However the entire system in place favors zerging around taking BOs, keeps and mopping up smaller opposing forces. From a realm standpoint this makes sense. You want to win right? From a player perspective it makes little sense though. What fun is there in being an anonymous soldier in a zerg?

    I do love when people say small groups have no place on the battlefield in WAR. If only they knew how much work small groups do to cut off reinforcements, take key positions (no not objectives, but map chokepoints) etc.

    When I first saw WAR I pictured organized armies charging each other on open ground or fighting through the streets, but I never pictured unorganized masses slithering around. I was naive, but at the same time a game like WAR allows this. However collision detection hasn't become useful in ORvR. Due to lag and a few other factors it's normally impossible for tanks to set "picks" (picture a basketball pick) for healers to get enemies off of them. I was hoping, no -expecting- that these sorts of things would be possible. There are rare times when you can get them to work, but more often than not enemies warp past you. In the end WAR is a good PvP game that allows zerging, small group battles and soloing. For that I am grateful. However this game could be so much more. We'll see where it goes in the coming months and years. This game is still very young.

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  6. i think zergs are good, they force players to call for reinforcements, and how hard could calling for more players be? its MMO for gods sake, i never had problem bringing more people to some PvP/PvE battle, no matter if it was rewarding or not
    but stil, from what i have seen (since im not WAR player) i would still enjoy small scale battles, or at least organized large-scale battle/zerg (only consisting of guildmates for example)

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  7. @Stopa-

    I should clarify. I'm not against large masses of players running around. What I'm against are unorganized large masses of players running around. This actually hurts both realms. The players who run in large zergs don't get better at playing by doing so. Those who work together to accomplish goals in an organized and tight knit manner often do get better. Zergs are unhealthy. When I bought WAR I pictured guilds fielding warbands in ORvR and there being massive battles between coordinated forces, not rabble running around from battlefield objective to battlefield objective.

    I will say that I do believe players in smaller guilds do need a place to go. I think pug groups are a must when it comes to RvR because nobody should be excluded. However the people who lead the pug warbands need to set the example. Poor leadership only worsens the whole situation.

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  8. thats why i rarely do PUG, and if i join one, i either fight for 10 minutes(if the leader is some kind of ass) or the whole battle, probably im just unlucky, but until now i met good leader in only about 25% PUGs
    thats why i LOOOOVE guilds and guild alliances

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  9. Well said Sto.

    -Selios

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